Quantcast
  • Register
PhysicsOverflow is a next-generation academic platform for physicists and astronomers, including a community peer review system and a postgraduate-level discussion forum analogous to MathOverflow.

Welcome to PhysicsOverflow! PhysicsOverflow is an open platform for community peer review and graduate-level Physics discussion.

Please help promote PhysicsOverflow ads elsewhere if you like it.

News

PO is now at the Physics Department of Bielefeld University!

New printer friendly PO pages!

Migration to Bielefeld University was successful!

Please vote for this year's PhysicsOverflow ads!

Please do help out in categorising submissions. Submit a paper to PhysicsOverflow!

... see more

Tools for paper authors

Submit paper
Claim Paper Authorship

Tools for SE users

Search User
Reclaim SE Account
Request Account Merger
Nativise imported posts
Claim post (deleted users)
Import SE post

Users whose questions have been imported from Physics Stack Exchange, Theoretical Physics Stack Exchange, or any other Stack Exchange site are kindly requested to reclaim their account and not to register as a new user.

Public \(\beta\) tools

Report a bug with a feature
Request a new functionality
404 page design
Send feedback

Attributions

(propose a free ad)

Site Statistics

205 submissions , 163 unreviewed
5,082 questions , 2,232 unanswered
5,353 answers , 22,789 comments
1,470 users with positive rep
820 active unimported users
More ...

  Exercise: show that two definitions of vertical subspace are equivalent

+ 2 like - 0 dislike
2204 views

Let us consider a principal bundle \(P \overset{\pi }{\to} M\), let \(u \in P\) and let \(G_p\) be the fibre at \(p = \pi(u)\). According to my book, the vertical subspace \(V_uP\) is defined as the subspace of \(T_uP\)  which is tangent to \(G_p\) at \(u\). Now, one of the exercises is to show that this definition is equivalent to:

\(V_u P = \mathrm{ker} \; \pi_* = \{ X \in T_uP \mid \pi_*X = 0 \} \)

where \(\pi_* : T_u P \to T_{\pi(u)}M \) is the induced map.

In order to try this exercise, I have mainly looked at how one usually derives the pushforward between manifolds:

\(\pi_* X[g] = X[g \circ \pi] = \frac{\mathrm{d}g(\pi(u(t)))}{\mathrm{d}t}\Bigl|_{t=0} = \frac{\partial g}{\partial \pi} \frac{\mathrm{d} \pi(u(t))}{\mathrm{d}t}\Bigl|_{t=0} \)

But I'm not really sure how to continue from here on. I've tried to Google it, but most sources I found only give the second definition without even discussing the first definition. Any help is much appreciated.

asked May 22, 2014 in Mathematics by Hunter (520 points) [ revision history ]
edited May 22, 2014 by Hunter

1 Answer

+ 4 like - 0 dislike

As $\pi_*$ is surjective,

$$\dim \ker \pi_* = \dim TG_p$$

and we only need to show $TG_p\subset \ker \pi_*$.

For any vector $X\in TG_p$, choose a curve $c$ in $G_p$ representing $X$, ie $\dot c(0) =X$. By definition, $\pi_*X=(\pi\circ c)^\cdot(0)$ and thus $\pi_*X=0$ as $\pi\circ c=p$ is constant.

Written in terms of derivations as was done in the question, this reads

$$ \pi_* X[g] = X[g \circ \pi] = \frac{\mathrm{d}g(\pi(u(t)))}{\mathrm{d}t}\Bigl|_{t=0} = \frac{\mathrm{d}g(p)}{\mathrm{d}t}\Bigl|_{t=0} = 0 $$

If you do not want to argue by dimensionality, you'd still have to show $\ker \pi_*\subset TG_p$, ie find a curve in $G_p$ representing any arbitrary vector from the kernel, which is easy after choice of trivialization:

Just take an associated chart $x^\mu,g^k$. Then, the local expression of $\pi_*$ is just

$$ X^\mu\frac\partial{\partial x^\mu} + X^k\frac\partial{\partial g^k} \mapsto X^\mu\frac\partial{\partial x^\mu} $$

so that any $X\in\ker\pi_*$ can be written as

$$ X = X^k\frac\partial{\partial g^k} $$

A corresponding vertical curve is parametrized by

$$ t \mapsto (x^\mu, g^k + t\cdot X^k) $$

answered May 22, 2014 by Christoph [ revision history ]
edited May 23, 2014

Thanks for your answer, but I'm not sure if I have fully understood it. I'll think about it some more and maybe ask you some questions in a couple of days if that is ok. Either way, I've voted it up, because it shows me that the method I was trying to use did not work at all.

@Hunter, I added some comments to the answer. The dimensions are equal due to $\dim TP=\dim\mathrm{im}\pi_*+\dim\ker\pi_*$. Hope that clarifies things a bit...

@Christoph I feel really silly for asking this, but please bear with me (I'm not very trained in providing mathematical proofs). You say that if we don't want to argue with dimensionality then we still have to show that \(\mathrm{ker} \; \pi_* \subset TG_p\). But the way I see it is that you have shown that \(X \in TG_p \implies \pi_* X = 0\), and we need to show the converse \(\pi_* X = 0 \implies X \in TG_p\). Is this true?

@Hunter, correct. This is a standard argument. Formally, it goes like this:

$$\begin{align*}
TG_p=\ker\pi_* &\Leftrightarrow TG_P\subset\ker\pi_*\wedge\ker\pi_*\subset TG_p
\\&\Leftrightarrow (X\in TG_p\Rightarrow X\in\ker\pi_*)\wedge(X\in\ker\pi_*\Rightarrow X\in TG_p)
\\&\Leftrightarrow (c:(-\epsilon,\epsilon)\to G_p\Rightarrow\pi_*\dot c(0)=0)\\&\quad\quad\wedge(\pi_*X=0\Rightarrow\exists c:(-\epsilon,\epsilon)\to G_p:X=\dot c(0))
\end{align*}$$

@Christoph thanks that is really helpful! I will try to spend some time on it this weekend if I have time.

@Christoph I've thought it about, and I think/hope I may have the answer. I am posting here, because I hope you can let me know if you think it is correct (and maybe it will useful for someone else).

Since we are considering a principal bundle, we have for \(A \in \mathfrak{g}\):

\(\pi(u) = \pi(u \exp (t A)) = p\)

and so \(u \exp (t A) \in G_p\). Therefore:

\(\pi_* X[g] = \frac{\partial g}{\partial \pi}\frac{\mathrm{d}}{\mathrm{d}t} \pi(u \exp(tA)) |_{t=0} = \frac{\partial g}{\partial \pi}\frac{\mathrm{d}}{\mathrm{d}t} \pi(u ) |_{t=0} = 0\)

and so for \(\pi_* X = 0\) we can always find a curve \(u \exp(t A) \in G_p\) ?

@Hunter, this doesn't help as you'd still have to construct $A$ (or at least prove its existence); I added the missing pieces to the answer...

@Christoph thank you for your help! I get it now.

Your answer

Please use answers only to (at least partly) answer questions. To comment, discuss, or ask for clarification, leave a comment instead.
To mask links under text, please type your text, highlight it, and click the "link" button. You can then enter your link URL.
Please consult the FAQ for as to how to format your post.
This is the answer box; if you want to write a comment instead, please use the 'add comment' button.
Live preview (may slow down editor)   Preview
Your name to display (optional):
Privacy: Your email address will only be used for sending these notifications.
Anti-spam verification:
If you are a human please identify the position of the character covered by the symbol $\varnothing$ in the following word:
p$\hbar$ys$\varnothing$csOverflow
Then drag the red bullet below over the corresponding character of our banner. When you drop it there, the bullet changes to green (on slow internet connections after a few seconds).
Please complete the anti-spam verification




user contributions licensed under cc by-sa 3.0 with attribution required

Your rights
...