Quantcast
  • Register
PhysicsOverflow is a next-generation academic platform for physicists and astronomers, including a community peer review system and a postgraduate-level discussion forum analogous to MathOverflow.

Welcome to PhysicsOverflow! PhysicsOverflow is an open platform for community peer review and graduate-level Physics discussion.

Please help promote PhysicsOverflow ads elsewhere if you like it.

News

PO is now at the Physics Department of Bielefeld University!

New printer friendly PO pages!

Migration to Bielefeld University was successful!

Please vote for this year's PhysicsOverflow ads!

Please do help out in categorising submissions. Submit a paper to PhysicsOverflow!

... see more

Tools for paper authors

Submit paper
Claim Paper Authorship

Tools for SE users

Search User
Reclaim SE Account
Request Account Merger
Nativise imported posts
Claim post (deleted users)
Import SE post

Users whose questions have been imported from Physics Stack Exchange, Theoretical Physics Stack Exchange, or any other Stack Exchange site are kindly requested to reclaim their account and not to register as a new user.

Public \(\beta\) tools

Report a bug with a feature
Request a new functionality
404 page design
Send feedback

Attributions

(propose a free ad)

Site Statistics

205 submissions , 163 unreviewed
5,082 questions , 2,232 unanswered
5,353 answers , 22,789 comments
1,470 users with positive rep
820 active unimported users
More ...

  Are there moments in particle collision experiments where the particle beam is in open air?

+ 2 like - 0 dislike
1403 views

I keep encountering the story of Anatoli Bugorski, who apparently got hit in the head by a proton beam at the U-70 PS in Protvino, Russia.

I find it difficult to believe that this is actually possible, because I've always been told that particle accelerators (from CRT's to the LHC) require a vacuum to prevent beam loss and defocussing and whatnot.

How do you get your head in the path of a particle beam if it travels in a vacuum tube? Or, is a vacuum always needed if you want to accelerate particles and do scattering experiments?

More concrete, is this incident possible? Was the U-70 operating without vacuum?

This post imported from StackExchange Physics at 2014-03-24 04:32 (UCT), posted by SE-user PatronBernard
asked Nov 21, 2013 in Experimental Physics by PatronBernard (10 points) [ no revision ]
retagged Mar 24, 2014 by dimension10
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Particle-beam_weapon#Beam_generation

This post imported from StackExchange Physics at 2014-03-24 04:32 (UCT), posted by SE-user Alfred Centauri

2 Answers

+ 5 like - 0 dislike

I was working at CERN bubble chamber experiments back in the early seventies. The accelerators required a vacuum so as to be able to sustain the beam which makes many turns in the circle ( practically velocity of light), so the best possible vacuum is and was a necessity.

After the generation of the beams , the beam lines did not need a vacuum because the probability of scattering in air is very small, and mainly a bit of ionization can happen. Even in the dense liquid of the bubble chamber maybe one in ten incoming particles interact; the intensity was low, controlled to be ten or so particles at a time, for clear pictures :

antiproton beam

This is an antiproton beam entering on the left.

When we got a glitch in data taking we would complain that the cat had entered the beam line ! Yes, a person could get in the beam. There were physicists in the early years who would center the beam by the Cerenkov light it made passing trough the eye. I know of one who died of cancer of the retina.

In those early times a proton beam could be a primary beam steered towards an electronic detector. In this case the beam would have many more particles and would present a greater danger. Still it could go through the air, depending on the experimental setup, may be for special checks with low intensity, but one should be careful of the radiation induced and certainly not to enter the beam line.

This post imported from StackExchange Physics at 2014-03-24 04:32 (UCT), posted by SE-user anna v
answered Nov 21, 2013 by anna v (2,005 points) [ no revision ]
Great post, thanks.

This post imported from StackExchange Physics at 2014-03-24 04:32 (UCT), posted by SE-user lionelbrits
Even at a modern electron machine like CEBAF (which operates in vacuum throughout the accelerator), there is a short (~20 cm) air gap between the end of the beamline and the target volume and between the target volume and the spectrometers.

This post imported from StackExchange Physics at 2014-03-24 04:32 (UCT), posted by SE-user dmckee
+ 0 like - 0 dislike

It's primarily the Earth's magnetic field that shields us from the Sun's protons, not the atmosphere. It's just that the losses are quite high for particle accelerators not in vacuum, and, they generate all sort of noise that would drown out whatever the physicists are looking at. Hence operating in vacuum.

Also, research particle accelerators are extraordinarily complex instruments. Perhaps he was working on the part of the device that injects the beam. Just because the beam might not be able to travel well several hundred meters in air doesn't mean it can't go through your head. Also, there seem to be very little details about the incident.

Finally, an X-ray machine is a particle accelerator that doesn't operate exclusively in vacuum.

So to answer your first question, no, a vacuum isn't required. How the hell his head got into the path of the beam is something better answered by experimentalists.

This post imported from StackExchange Physics at 2014-03-24 04:32 (UCT), posted by SE-user lionelbrits
answered Nov 21, 2013 by lionelbrits (110 points) [ no revision ]

Your answer

Please use answers only to (at least partly) answer questions. To comment, discuss, or ask for clarification, leave a comment instead.
To mask links under text, please type your text, highlight it, and click the "link" button. You can then enter your link URL.
Please consult the FAQ for as to how to format your post.
This is the answer box; if you want to write a comment instead, please use the 'add comment' button.
Live preview (may slow down editor)   Preview
Your name to display (optional):
Privacy: Your email address will only be used for sending these notifications.
Anti-spam verification:
If you are a human please identify the position of the character covered by the symbol $\varnothing$ in the following word:
p$\hbar$y$\varnothing$icsOverflow
Then drag the red bullet below over the corresponding character of our banner. When you drop it there, the bullet changes to green (on slow internet connections after a few seconds).
Please complete the anti-spam verification




user contributions licensed under cc by-sa 3.0 with attribution required

Your rights
...