Quantcast
  • Register
PhysicsOverflow is a next-generation academic platform for physicists and astronomers, including a community peer review system and a postgraduate-level discussion forum analogous to MathOverflow.

Welcome to PhysicsOverflow! PhysicsOverflow is an open platform for community peer review and graduate-level Physics discussion.

Please help promote PhysicsOverflow ads elsewhere if you like it.

News

PO is now at the Physics Department of Bielefeld University!

New printer friendly PO pages!

Migration to Bielefeld University was successful!

Please vote for this year's PhysicsOverflow ads!

Please do help out in categorising submissions. Submit a paper to PhysicsOverflow!

... see more

Tools for paper authors

Submit paper
Claim Paper Authorship

Tools for SE users

Search User
Reclaim SE Account
Request Account Merger
Nativise imported posts
Claim post (deleted users)
Import SE post

Users whose questions have been imported from Physics Stack Exchange, Theoretical Physics Stack Exchange, or any other Stack Exchange site are kindly requested to reclaim their account and not to register as a new user.

Public \(\beta\) tools

Report a bug with a feature
Request a new functionality
404 page design
Send feedback

Attributions

(propose a free ad)

Site Statistics

206 submissions , 164 unreviewed
5,103 questions , 2,249 unanswered
5,355 answers , 22,794 comments
1,470 users with positive rep
820 active unimported users
More ...

  Non-linear Dirac equation in Einstein Cartan theory

+ 2 like - 0 dislike
1543 views

Can someone explain this Wikipedia article, specifically the section on Einstein-Cartan theory? I have no idea how the equation \begin{equation}(i\gamma^{\mu}D_{\mu}-m)\psi=i\gamma^{\mu}\nabla_{\mu}\psi+\frac{3\kappa}{8}(\bar\psi\gamma_{\mu}\gamma^{5}\psi)\gamma^{\mu}\gamma^{5}\psi -m\psi\end{equation} is justified. They state that $D_{\mu}$ is a covariant derivative acting on spinors, and then later state that $\nabla_{\mu}$ is a general-relativistic covariant derivative acting on spinors. I don't know what the difference between the two would be. Lastly, where does the cubic term come from? That's what confuses me the most.

This post imported from StackExchange Physics at 2014-03-07 16:43 (UCT), posted by SE-user TeeJay
asked Dec 6, 2013 in Theoretical Physics by TeeJay (20 points) [ no revision ]

1 Answer

+ 4 like - 0 dislike

When you write the Dirac equation in a curved spacetime, in the context of General Relativity (which allows curvature, but not torsion) , you have a spin connection :

$$\nabla_\mu\psi=\left(\partial_{\mu}-\frac i4\omega_{\mu}^{IJ}\sigma_{IJ}\right)\psi$$

Now, the Einstein-Cartan theory is not General Relativity, because it allows curvature, but also torsion, which is proportionnal to your term $\kappa$.

So, it turns, that, in presence of torsion ($\kappa$), everything happens as if there was a Lagrangian with a quadratic term, so the equation of movement has a cubic term (see for instance, this Ref, formula $16$ for the torsion, and formula $31$ for the Dirac equation.

[EDIT]

Due to OP comments, some precisions :

(Always working with the same Ref):

$\nabla_\mu \psi$, is the covariant derivative for a spinor in general relativity, that is without torsion. This means that the Dirac equation in general relativity is $(i\gamma^{\mu}\nabla_{\mu}-m)\psi=0$. But it is no more true with a space-time with torsion, so it is better to use an other notation $D_\mu$ if you want to write a Dirac equation like $(i\gamma^{\mu}D_{\mu}-m)\psi=0$. The quartic term (in $\psi$) for $R_{ab}$ (formula $30$), or the quadratic term in $T_a$ (formula $29$), which lead to the cubic term for the Dirac equation (formula $31$), come from the coupled Euler-Lagrange equations $15,16$. For instance, you see, in formula $4$, that the connection has a supplementary term $K^a_b$ (contorsion), which is linked to the torsion (formula $6$), which is itself quadratic in the $\psi$ (formula $29$). So, in some way, you may simply consider this supplementary connection, if you remember where connection appears in a "derivative". Yes $\kappa$ is the gravitational constant, see formula $9$. Now, you may look, in this ref, that the torsion (defined in formula $2$), in the Einstein-Cartan model (formulae $8,9$), is proportionnal to $\kappa$ (formula $16$)

This post imported from StackExchange Physics at 2014-03-07 16:43 (UCT), posted by SE-user Trimok
answered Dec 6, 2013 by Trimok (955 points) [ no revision ]
Two questions, if $\nabla_{\mu}\psi$ is what you've described, then what is $D_{\mu}\psi$? I'm beginning to understand the origin of the cubic term, but I'm not quite there yet. I'm pretty sure $\kappa$ is just the gravitational constant here, so I'm unsure why you've referenced it with the inclusion of torsion. Could you perhaps elaborate a bit more on these?

This post imported from StackExchange Physics at 2014-03-07 16:43 (UCT), posted by SE-user TeeJay
@TeeJay : I edited the answer.

This post imported from StackExchange Physics at 2014-03-07 16:43 (UCT), posted by SE-user Trimok
thank you very much. This helped tremendously.

This post imported from StackExchange Physics at 2014-03-07 16:43 (UCT), posted by SE-user TeeJay
@Adobe : Well, guys, all this was my fault, I should not use a copy of an image...

This post imported from StackExchange Physics at 2014-03-07 16:43 (UCT), posted by SE-user Trimok

Your answer

Please use answers only to (at least partly) answer questions. To comment, discuss, or ask for clarification, leave a comment instead.
To mask links under text, please type your text, highlight it, and click the "link" button. You can then enter your link URL.
Please consult the FAQ for as to how to format your post.
This is the answer box; if you want to write a comment instead, please use the 'add comment' button.
Live preview (may slow down editor)   Preview
Your name to display (optional):
Privacy: Your email address will only be used for sending these notifications.
Anti-spam verification:
If you are a human please identify the position of the character covered by the symbol $\varnothing$ in the following word:
p$\hbar$ysics$\varnothing$verflow
Then drag the red bullet below over the corresponding character of our banner. When you drop it there, the bullet changes to green (on slow internet connections after a few seconds).
Please complete the anti-spam verification




user contributions licensed under cc by-sa 3.0 with attribution required

Your rights
...