Quantcast
  • Register
PhysicsOverflow is a next-generation academic platform for physicists and astronomers, including a community peer review system and a postgraduate-level discussion forum analogous to MathOverflow.

Welcome to PhysicsOverflow! PhysicsOverflow is an open platform for community peer review and graduate-level Physics discussion.

Please help promote PhysicsOverflow ads elsewhere if you like it.

News

PO is now at the Physics Department of Bielefeld University!

New printer friendly PO pages!

Migration to Bielefeld University was successful!

Please vote for this year's PhysicsOverflow ads!

Please do help out in categorising submissions. Submit a paper to PhysicsOverflow!

... see more

Tools for paper authors

Submit paper
Claim Paper Authorship

Tools for SE users

Search User
Reclaim SE Account
Request Account Merger
Nativise imported posts
Claim post (deleted users)
Import SE post

Users whose questions have been imported from Physics Stack Exchange, Theoretical Physics Stack Exchange, or any other Stack Exchange site are kindly requested to reclaim their account and not to register as a new user.

Public \(\beta\) tools

Report a bug with a feature
Request a new functionality
404 page design
Send feedback

Attributions

(propose a free ad)

Site Statistics

205 submissions , 163 unreviewed
5,082 questions , 2,232 unanswered
5,353 answers , 22,789 comments
1,470 users with positive rep
820 active unimported users
More ...

  Did nature or mathematical physicists invent the renormalization group?

+ 0 like - 2 dislike
2467 views

Or in other words:

The renormalization group is a systematic theoretical framework and a set of elegant (and often effective) mathematical techniques to build effective field theories, valid at large scales, by smoothing out irrelevant fluctuations at smaller scales.

But does the renormalization group also describe something that nature does?

If you think the question doesn't make sense, please say so but also explain why.

asked Mar 7, 2018 in Chat by Giulio Prisco (190 points) [ no revision ]
recategorized Mar 7, 2018 by Arnold Neumaier

Who has invented renormalizations? Physicists, mathematical physicists, mathematicians, but in no way the Nature. Our ways of nature perception, our commodities to describe this or that push us to advance this or that description. Our preferences, to be short.

I voted against this question as it's really a metaphysical question.

@MathematicalPhysicist re "it's really a metaphysical question" - Perhaps, but than any really interesting question of the type "what is really out there" is a metaphysical question. If so, any interpretative physics discussion is really metaphysics.

I  moved the question to chat because of its metaphysical nature.

One can suppose, perhaps, that Renormalization is successfully mimicking some aspect of Nature, but that leaves a question of whether renormalization is a complete and the only way to mimic nature successfully. Even if one thinks that renormalization is adequate mathematics, which it is, or even if one thinks that it is elegant (though to me there are too much complications for it to rise to that height), the aim of mathematical physics is always to create better systematic theoretical frameworks, more suited to the needs of physics, than we have now. We have to believe we can do better, that it is worthwhile to stand on the shoulders of those who did brilliant work, without anything other than respect for what they did. Otherwise we should go do something else, something we do believe is worthwhile.

@ArnoldNeumaier - Thanks for reminding me of the Chat option. I would have placed this thread here if I had thought of it.

Note to devs: Perhaps a box with the most recent chats could/should be featured in the front page?

@PeterMorgan - Of course every physical theory can and will be improved. At this moment I am interested in whether the current renormalization group theories do, as you say, mimic some aspect of Nature.

I am trying to think of a more precise way to formulate the question, more soon.

1 Answer

+ 2 like - 0 dislike

Nature just is and happens.

Since the human culture is part of nature, whatever humans invent is in a sense invented by nature, if the latter term makes any sense. 

Humans discover (and do not invent) principles of Nature, including the renormalization group. Invented are only the particular forms the principles are represented symbolically. 

answered Mar 7, 2018 by Arnold Neumaier (15,787 points) [ no revision ]

The OP clearly distinguishes us humans and Nature, i.e., what we investigate in Physics. One should not say that Nature investigates Nature, because it does not make sense.

"Renormalization group" is not a "principle of Nature", but our own "technique" to deal with this or that problem. It has been conceived as such and as such it is.

Your answer

Please use answers only to (at least partly) answer questions. To comment, discuss, or ask for clarification, leave a comment instead.
To mask links under text, please type your text, highlight it, and click the "link" button. You can then enter your link URL.
Please consult the FAQ for as to how to format your post.
This is the answer box; if you want to write a comment instead, please use the 'add comment' button.
Live preview (may slow down editor)   Preview
Your name to display (optional):
Privacy: Your email address will only be used for sending these notifications.
Anti-spam verification:
If you are a human please identify the position of the character covered by the symbol $\varnothing$ in the following word:
p$\hbar$ysicsO$\varnothing$erflow
Then drag the red bullet below over the corresponding character of our banner. When you drop it there, the bullet changes to green (on slow internet connections after a few seconds).
Please complete the anti-spam verification




user contributions licensed under cc by-sa 3.0 with attribution required

Your rights
...